杨澜访谈录-我在美国做母亲-虎妈蔡美儿

杨澜访谈录-我在美国做母亲-虎妈蔡美儿 杨澜访谈录---虎妈战歌谁和谁的较量(下) Yang Lan---Y; Amy Chua-A Y: In the end of the book, you have a sense of reflection, so I didn't read any regret. A: well, I have some regrets, some regrets, but you said it right, if I could do it all right again, I could do the same thing. Y: why, you have seen it that it would work to your young daughter... A: no, I think it did work. Because I came up to a point of crisis, if I kept pushing more and more, then it wouldn't work. But then I realize, when children are still very young, I like the traditional Chinese way, you know, because, when children are 5 or 6 or 7 years old, they are too young to make their choices, and this is for me where I didn't agree with the Western way, you knew the Western gives you so many choices, but I think you told your child when they are at 5, do whatever you want, they would just watch TV all day, and you know, you know, I still happy that I like the way of hard work and self-discipline and don't give up your children. You know, when the children like Lulu, when she grows up to 12-13 year old teenager, then I think the children they have to give them more to the children. Y: so what are the rebellings when you at your teenage years old, what is your dream at home? A: you knew, my parents are more traditional than me, because they come from Asian to US, they didn't know anything about the US culture. For example, my father says, then you go to college, you have to live at home, stay at home and ... Y: so you don't mess around with the other boys. A: yes, exactly. You just stay at home with your family, so I secretly applied to Harvard at the other side of the country. We lived in California. So I applied a school five thousand miles away, and when I got in, I said to him, Dad, I was accepted by Harvard , and I had to go there. I thought he would be very angry, and then, he found out and said, oh, Harvard, that's a good school, not bad. Later he was proud, and he had said that I should be scientist or doctor, when I was young, my parents did more narrow, they just think the best thing to do is to be a scientist, so when I went to law school, they said what, what is this. Again, that was a kind of rebelling, but now, they are very proud, I did a lot of thing from my, too. Y: because you are a minority, and sometimes you are faced with some kind of discrimination. This was very much in the blood of the first generation of migrants, A: I agree, you know, my parents, you know, the first generation, they have to survive, that was many parents generation, you know they have no time to think about the luxury, and they are thinking about how can I prepare well for my children, and I think, each generation, you may lose it, you know the Jewish... Y: you don't have the survive crisis any more. A: exactly. Y: you know, you, in the book, you said that you are so afraid of the fact in Chinese 富不过三代. So you are so afraid if I inerprete it right. You children would lose the motivation to excel themselves and to be the best of themselves. A: Yes, I'm very afraid of that. Y: is that what you afraid of? A: yes. I'm fearful about that, but not only afraid of success, that was only half of it. Because I think it's no good for the children, too be very spoiled, you know the third generation, they are more wealthy, they are more comfortable. You know, this children in America, maybe also in China, the children are becoming more spoiled, they are very materialistic, in kind of selfish, buy me this, I want this. Y: because they take it for granted. A: yes, they take it for granted, and I don't think that's the recipe for happiness, so it's not just success they may have not such a good marriage late on. Selfish people are not the happiness people. I think, I'd like them to take responsibilities, to be appreciative, you know, not just buy me more things, I was also told them, it's very hard for me, my first pair of nice shoes, I'd worked so hard for them, so I don't just let them think that they can have everything. You know, that's why I don't let them shopping all the time, you know, I want them to have some more depth, some more culture. Y: what was the role of education of your husband, A: my husband always bought balance to the family, and this is something I think... Y: I think, he has been driven crazy, you know, by those words, you know from the book, you and your daughters were very fierce words with your daughters, and it must be a devastating experience for your husband. A: no, not really. Y:no? A: no, nor really. There are many Western families, believe it or not, their parents are very ...just do whatever you want, but these children got to blame these parents later on, and my husband was wish his parent was to be restricted with him, Y: you are kidding me? I don't believe that. A: that's true. He wishes, he wishes that, he remember that when his mom give him a choice when he was 6 years old. Jed, do you want to play your violin or play with your friends. Of course, at your 6 years old , you choose to play with your friends, and now he regrets, he wishes that there was someone who force him to play the instrument he likes. Y: but there got to be a moment that he got disagree with you. A: oh, yes, of course there many moments . But he...we didn't give up the disagree when they are young. Because he just insisted, at weekends, oh, that's enough violin, we are going now to have fun at the park, or we are going to playing PingPong, to a baseball game. So you know, my children are raised half Western way comparing with me. They have a lot of fun, because my husband always insisted on bringing balance. When Lulu was 13, we really got angry, I and my husband had more conflict and I listen to him. And he was really unhappy about that, and he said that look, you have changed, and that's when I pulled back and changed. Y: in your book, what you used to describe tiger mothers was tiger are lonely animals, are you lonely yourself? Especially in the way, you know, in many other American Mothers, will you lonely? A: yeah, I was a little lonely only when it came to difficult moments when I was with my children, because I thought I couldn't find nobody to talk to. You know, because I was very much want to raise my children the way my parents, they raise me, but all around me, we had Western friends, Western culture and Western school, I think it's hard for the a Chinese audience to understand how different America is. Y: how do you describe the pressure on you? It could be another way, you know, in China, if you didn't get your children into, you know, 奥数班～the special training for mathematics, she is lonely, because she is alone, it's the other way in America. So it drives you to think of the press just the different, describe to us. A: you know, other parents are saying don't put too much press on grade, a B+ would be, not all the America families, but it would be enough. But don't make you kids feels too bad, everything they do is great, just try your best, so, when I say to her that you have to try to play violin at least two hours every day, many people think that's abusive, it was some kind of lonely, especially, when she said why, why you are the only Mum that makes me do this, and it sometimes makes me question. Y: what has been change? A: those rules at the beginning of the book are in English,you can tell it's to be a kind of funs, the rules, only As, the only pianos or violin, that's the rules my parents applied to me, but because my husband was Western, those rules are never applied to my children so restrictly, just compare to Western kids, but now, they for example in America, when children has sleepovers, you know several weekends, kids went through the night at theirs friends to sleep, Y:it's still forbidden in your home, A: No, Lulu, had four in the last two months, and I'm not happy about it, Y: it destroy your rules... A: yeah, and sometimes I was always compromising, well it's what I would give up was schools, I'm still very restrict, Y: straight As. A: yes, I don't always criticize. When she got back a 96 percent of 100, I praise her, but let's see, what's the missing 4 points, Y: you are too restrict. A: but it's only a sign of I believing in you. I think you can do better, actually both girls agree with me, I think they are happy, they are happy that they are both good students, because it give them confidence, because it gives them also a some kind of happiness and more choices, Y: you knew, a lot of excuse when Chinese students are pushed to do their exersizes and their homework. Good grade, a lot of examinations, good grades, and so on so forth. But they all have a excuse that I'm doing for your best interests, and the reasons you are suffering now is one day you would go to college. There is a survey recently, among the tens of thousand of college students, which find out that a lot of students didn't understand the meaning of learning at all, because, even in the kindergarten years, all these are about going to college, you know, that's why you are suffering, suffering for a purpose. A: i'm really disagree with that mentality. I think people have to realize the fact that I wrote the book in the America, America is exactly the opposite, in the America systems, it's never about preparing for the future, it's when you at your 7 or 8 years, you are certain to find your passion, it's the opposite here, that's why I still have to ask my children better for the future. If I were in China, in that kind of system, I think I might be the opposite way, because I think your have to experience the fun of learning, you have to have the joy, and this is interesting that I am studying fully because I alike it, not just tocher and not just memorizing, you know teaching at Yale for a year, I realize the problem with some of my Asian student, some of them, and they just study so hard and miserable, they don't really like it, they don't have the joy of that. Y:now that there are so many people talking about the PISA test, you know, during the test, you know Chinese students rank number one in language, maths, and science, you know, what's you idea about that? A: I agree, I don't think we should think black or white, which is better, memorizing or creativety, that's not the way we should think about it, we should think about how we can combine, you know, even in the science and maths, if you want to be very inventive and science creativity, if you want to come up with the Einstein theory, you need to be able to plus and be able to multiply, you still have to lay the basic foundation for it, US did that so badly, can you imagine that formed a superpower, and that's why I think they are a bitter of upset. Y: because the training is different, in China, children are trained to do well. A: but I have to tell you, a lot of Chinese students who come to college in US and they still do very well, so you can take that basic skills and you can learn better in a better environment, also to be more creative, but US college are really fantastic, and it's not just memorizing, it's the opposite. Y: do you think what's the reason why it raise so much attention is that there is a underlying fear or anxiety that China and other nations in Asian are emerging in the raising to challenge the authority of America. A: I think that's definitely part of the reason. Y: they are raising their children in such a competitive way, that we may lose our future competitiveness in the future, so they.. Look at the tiger mother, yes, you know... A: yes, i think that's the reason of this issue for sure, you know, a lot of my friends also called it of Battle Hymnof the Italy mother, or BattleHymnof the Mexican Mother, nobody will care it. OK, I think there is a lot of anxiety and worry in the US that, and my book was actually published at the same week when the that of PISA result came out, with all the Shanghai kinds are NO. One, and the US are ranking so embarrassing, and I think that's definitely part of it.